In article <32B4B13A.7E24@sprynet.com> Richard Lawson <sterman@sprynet.com> 
writes:

A writer can do a lot less with prose than with a script as 
well.  It depends on the writer.

This is true of any format and is not relevant to the discussion.

Oh?  Then what of the original assertion that more could be done with prose 
than with the script format?

It depends on the writer and how effectively they use the format, whether or 
not its prose or script.

Here's a generalization if I've ever seen one.  Ever read "Dubliners"? 
It's written in prose format, and *nothing* is spelled out - you have to
ferret out *everything*.  Likewise, stuff like DnR spells out
everything, even in script format.  It's not the format that decides how
much is spelled out, it's the writer.

Yeah, but we're not talking Joyce here.  You can pick out exceptions to any 
generalization just by looking hard enough.  Akane is not exactly Anna Livia 
Plurabelle (though maybe Kasumi...).

Yes, my original statement was a generalization.  And yes, how much is spelled 
out is going to depend on the writer.  But as a generalization, the format of 
the script (or in terms of fanfics, a modified script) lends itself more 
toward a dialogue-action focus rather than an inner conflict-emotional one.  
And I do not think that it is an entirely disvalid view.  Yes, you can cross 
the line from either side, and it is done on a regular basis by some authors.

And even in DnR there is a range between authors of how much is actually 
spelled out.  I think that Paul is a little less willing to spell things out 
for the reader than the others (though that perception may be due to some 
comments he made on DnR21).

In the first example, you get a lot more *feeling* out of the
description, a much better sense of how the cold affects the house and
the people inside (although it could be done a lot better).  That's why
the "extra bit".  True, sometimes less is more, but sometimes less is
less, too.

The question that has to be asked by the writer is whether or not the added 
description adds any real effect to the story.  I believe another reply to my 
e-mail was also that it adds to the story, it fills it out and makes the world 
more complete.

For these authors, the answer of whether or not to add it would be "yes", 
and that's fine for them.  For me, unless it impacts the story, the answer 
would be "no".  Partially because I'm working in script format, and if I 
mention it, its because its important to the story.  But mainly because 
(IMO) I don't feel it adds much usually - and it usually detracts from the 
flow of the story.

I won't argue with the last statement, which is true.  If the writer is
good enough, they are able to overcome the limitations of script format,
like Biles, Weinberg, and the DnR authors are able to.  Still, I cannot
help but feel that their stories would be better if they would write
them in prose format.

I don't agree.  Both script and prose have their limitations; one is not 
necessarily "better" than the other.  I think that the script format works 
better for DnR than a prose format would; it allows them to keep focus better 
on the main storyline in the episode, which is how they want to tell their 
stories.

It also allows for easier maintenance on continuity.  Its a lot harder to wade 
through the flowery prose to check on "facts" than it is when the descriptions 
are minimal.  Did you know that the japanese school year starts in the spring? 
 Well, most people didn't - even though there was a direct reference to spring 
in DnR3.

And while the fact that 99% of stories are written in prose format
rather than script format isn't, in and of itself, proof that prose
format is better, it's surely a good indication.

No, I don't believe that's the case.  I believe that its just an indication 
that the prose format is the more historically accepted/societally ingrained 
one.  The fact that the majority (as you say, I doubt that the percentage is 
that high though) are prose could also be an indication of how much less the 
script format is experienced by readers to begin with (and you probably aren't 
going to appreciate script format unless you've actually acted).

Writers get paid by the word.  I get paid by the hour (and not 
for writing fanfiction).

Again irrelevant.  I don't get paid either, yet I choose to write in
prose format.

A comedic aside is lost.  :)

The fact that writers get paid by the word (at least college newspaper 
reporters do) tends to favor the more verbose style, in this case, prose.

I don't know the purpose of the last line, so I'll ignore it.  I've seen
script formats that are filled with a lot of unnecessary dialogue.  This
is mostly because the writers can't make simple prose descriptions of
thoughts and emotions, so fall back on verbosity of the characters to
overcome that. So while bad prose stories are filled with unnecessary
descriptions, even good script stories are filled with excessive
dialogue in an attempt to overcome the limitations of the medium.  IMO
as well.

The purpose of the last line was just another comedic aside.  An example of a 
fact that could be inserted into a flowery prose to make the fanfic more 
complete and "realistic".

Sure, I won't disagree with that.  At least not totally.  I don't believe that 
"good" script stories are necessarily filled with excessive dialogue.  At 
least no more than good prose stories are filled with unnecessary descriptions.

Writing in script demands more on the end of editing.  Since 
the object is to tell the story the most effectively, every 
word increases in importance. Details that are described carry 
more implication than they would in prose format, since they 
wouldn't have been mentioned unless they were necessary.

This I disagree with.  I agonize over every story I write, and usually
send them off to pre-readers to pore over.  And I disagree with the
phrase "most effectively"; you're revealing your bias here.  It's my
opinion that prose tells the story "most effectively".  Judging by the
comments I've seen here, most of the FFML seems to agree.

By most effectively, I mean using the least amount of words to convey the same 
idea.  I think that your "most effectively" seems to be more along the lines 
of "greatest impact on reader".

Its probably easier to use the prose format in that case because you tend more 
to deal with the characters thoughts and emotions.  Its easier to snare the 
reader into feeling a sympathy with the character.

But at the same time, would the scene in DnR20-21 where Ranma is sitting front 
of the TV while Akane and Ukyou argue around him work better in a prose 
format?  I don't believe so.  It is enough for the reader to know that Ranma 
is thinking about it so much that he is unable to notice what is happening 
around him (and we know what he is thinking because he is saying it out loud 
in a detached way).  Adding things to make it work in prose format would only 
detract from the scene and lessen the impact.

I agonize over every word that I put into my stories.  Well, not agonize, but 
sleep on it.  I usually re-read the thing several times to make sure each line 
is the one I want in there before I post the final version.  Unfortunately, I 
hardly ever get comments from pre-readers (at least that's what I think the 
fanfic mailing list is for).

Check out my prose stories some time, Jon.  They are *very* minimal in
descriptions.  I don't think I ever mention what anyone is wearing
unless it's important.  I don't describe things in any kind of detail. 
People who are unnecessarily descriptive are writing bad prose, true. 
But that's not because they choose to write in prose; it's because
they're writing badly.  The format has nothing to do with it.

But hey, if the majority of writers are writing bad prose... (point above 
regarding majority deciding what was "right")

I haven't read your stories for awhile (but then I haven't read much outside 
of DnR for awhile due to my work).

You *can* write good, snappy dialogue in prose format, and actions can
be written well in prose as well (ask Fleming or Ludlum).  Again, it's a
function of the writer, not the format.

But at the same time, the added wordage necessary to describe the dialogue in 
prose format (IMO) disrupts the flow of the dialogue.  And if you reduce an 
extended conversation to consequtive quotes, you soon lose track of who's 
saying what, which again detracts from the dialogue.

Action scenes are kind of strange in those terms.  Action scenes work best 
when there's a paucity in description (just what happends in each action and 
not much more).  The script format would normally imply that there is a 
minimalist description, which is not implied by the prose format.  Of course, 
whether or not an author actually uses a minimalist description depends on the 
author.

And you've hit the nail on the head as to why prose format is better
than script.  Emotions, thought, and motivations are *much* easier to
convey in prose format.
Script format assumes that there will be a visual and/or audio medium to
accompany the dialogue and stage directions.  There, you depend on the
actors (voice or otherwise) to convey the emotions and feelings. 
Without such accompaniments, script format comes across as incomplete,
the feeling that something is missing - which, of course, it is.

It is only incomplete in that you don't have everything spelled out for you.  
And there is a audio/visual medium to work for script format.  It is the 
reader's mind.

It is easier for the reader to understand the characters because you've given 
them that extra access that they wouldn't normally get.  But I don't think 
that it makes prose format better.  Certainly you could do the same in script 
format through the use of monologues (but those usually don't scan because 
you don't find many people talking into thin air on the street debating their 
actions).

It is all there.  Its there in the character's actions and dialogue.  You just 
have to interpret it.

You want to do lemon scenes?  Do them in prose - you're typically
dealing not only with action but also emotions.  You want to do 
snappy dialogue or a fight, do it in script - the format doesn't 
detract from the flow of the story, yet it still remains clear 
exactly what's going on.

Well, this I won't touch on, only to comment that I have yet to see a
script lemon.  Then again, I don't read many lemons, so who knows what
people have tried.  :)

Actually, Marital Arts is somewhat of a script lemon.  The lemon scenes are in 
prose but the story scenes are in script.

JK