On Mon, 28 Apr 1997 00:12:52 -600, Sean Connor wrote:
<sarcasm>
Oh, well, in that case, I'm really, truly, terribly sorry that I've
read past the end of what Viz has translated. You can never imagine
the regret I feel that some of the bad, evil, heathen stories from the
latter 2/3 of the manga have caused me to develop an opinion of Ukyou
that differs considerably from the One True Characterization of Ukyou(tm)
that the all-seeing, all knowing, all powerful King Gary has laid
down. I beg your forgiveness.
</sarcasm>
:> :> :> :> :> <----
|
[Urge to flame resisted] |
|
Part of doing C&C is commenti|g on characterizations. Stating my own views is
not the same as bashing other| over the head for theirs. I would certainly never
turn such a difference of opi|ion into a personal attack on someone, as you have
just done here. |
|
Know what these are?-----------|
They're called 'smileys', and they indicate that the above passage
was made in jest. The points I most wanted to make, I pulled out
below.
I mentioned my ignorance of the later manga simply so people would *know* that
my opinions did not take into account all possible information. FAR from
claiming to be all-knowing, I *admitted* my lack of knowledge so people could
weight what I said accordingly.
True, in _this_ post you did, but I have seen other posts of yours
where you didn't.
How DARE you accuse me of disdain for the later manga?
I didn't.
I am a *huge*
Takahashi-sama fan, and I would LOVE to be able to read that stuff. It's
unfortunately inconvenient for me to do so, given that the comic stores in my
area don't know how to order it, and that my comprehension of written Japanese
is absolutely zero. Care to send me copies of volumes 13-38 with complete
translations? Didn't think so.
The manga can be mail-ordered from places like the UCI Bookstore
(http://www.book.uci.edu/anime.html) and Nikaku Animart.
Translations for most of the later manga are available on the net.
Seriously, though, you've been bonking other authors over the head
over portrayals of Ukyou in C&C. I think this is out of line
Commenting on characterization is not out of line. I do not force authors to
accept what I say. I do not attack them personally for what they say. That is
what's out of line.
As I believe I said before, that was an outburst of humor, not a
personal attack.
because:
1. The characters are not portrayed particularly consistenly by
Takahashi. There is therefore no one 'right' characterization, but
rather a range of acceptable characterizations.
I have never said otherwise. (I myself have treated the same characters
differently in different fics.)
2. Given the above, different authors will see the characters in
different lights, depending on background, upbringing, personal
experience, etc. As long as the character doesn't deviate _so_ far
away from the original as to become ridiculous, these differing
characterizations are valid.
Again, I never said otherwise. If anyone here is trying to *force* a particular
characterization of Ukyo, it isn't me.
3. You have said (or at least implied) that you have only read what
Viz has translated. For Pete's sake, this is less than 1/3 of the
series! And, to top it all off, Ukyou only appears relatively
recently in it. If you've only read Viz translations, you're only
getting part of the picture.
Which I admitted. I do note that you have given no examples from the later manga
to support your position, though. So no one who hasn't read all the source
material has the right to comment on characterizations? Is that what you're
saying?
No, but I would say that anyone who comments on the characterizations
of Ukyou or Mousse while only having read what Viz has translated is
treading on thin ice. (Mousse flip-flops between murderous and nice,
and I don't think Viz has translated any 'nice Mousse' stuff yet.)
Yes, Ukyou and Akane could both be described as 'violent'. However,
Thank you. You've just admitted the point I was making. They are both violent.
I don't remember ever saying otherwise.
there is evidence that Ukyou is much less violent than Akane.
Present this evidence, please. (Particularly the evidence for "much".)
The 'Secret Sauce' story from Manga 18 is particularly interesting in
this regard. It's available from the Ranma Project
(http://www.vrg.utoronto.ca:80/~doyama/ranma/) as Phase 7.
I'd like to throw this hypothetical question out:
Hypothetical questions are not evidence. Next!
Toasters aren't evidence either. So what?
Something tells me that she would have reacted with a lot more
violence than Ukyou did. (I hesitate to even imagine the beating
that the first one would have brought on. :)
But none of the things you listed happened, so we don't actually know.
They wouldn't be hypothetical questions if they did happen, now would
they? :)
"Something tells me" is not evidence.
No, it's not, but neither is chunky peanut butter.
And **according to the information I have
so far**, whatever Akane's other faults, she does *not* attack noncombatants.
Notice the qualifier there. If you can point me toward an example where she
*does* do this, I will gladly retract this statement.
True, but largely beside the point.
Remember a basic rule of logic: If you assume any (provably) false
statement to be true, you can prove any other statement whether true or
false. If you assume Akane's violence has serious consequences, you can
prove that she's a dangerous maniac who needs to be locked up. But that
don't make it so. The premise is flawed.
Well, even Kasumi calls Akane a "violent maniac". :)
Gee, that one funny line settles *everything*.
Well, it's the best way of summing things up that I've ever seen.
Anyways, methinks some people around here need to take a Prozac. :)
(me included :)
I won't argue with that.
At least I admit it. :)
- Sean Connor (connor@meena.cc.uregina.ca)
"It jams." - Intel TV ad, referring to the Pentium chip.