But she's also got the normal concept of masculinity, too. She just
adds on a few weird things ... After all, just like anyone else, she
thinks that Ranma, running around in girls' clothing, is unmanly...
but she thinks that it's okay for a guy to do whatever ecchi thing
he wants with his iinazuke ... but she also thinks that a guy, staring
into a mirror and posing, is unmanly. Well, that's a normal thing to
think, too! ^_^

Not if he's checking to make sure his outfit is manly enough!

Which he wasn't doing. He was just posing.

Nodoka thinks normal unmanly things are unmanly. It's just that she
thinks some strange other things ARE manly, on top of it.

Okay, I think I get it.  So if it's something "unmanly" that lots of guys 
do, she disapproves but if it's something "unmanly" that only girl-cursed 
guys can do, she accepts it?

The first bit, yes. The second bit - huh? I don't get it.

Genma would be about 40 ... Nodoka, maybe 37... I think that that is
passed the age for women having children in Japan ... But, even so...

?  I thought they get menopause roughly the same time the rest of us do.  
Thirty-seven is a bit young for that.

I mean to do with society, not physically. I don't believe that there is
much acceptance for women Nodoka's age having children, because she should
be concentrating on the children she already has, getting them through
high school, and if it's a boy, into university. How could she take time
out to start fully concentrating on a baby, when she already has Ranma
still to look after? Especially since she's missed out on 10 years of
his life - she has a lot of catching up to do.

See the way Nodoka acts around Genma? She dislikes the guy, or at least
doesn't really care about him, any more. Why would she go to the bother
of trying to have more children with a dispicable person like Genma,
anyway? Ewwww!

Maybe she really wants a cute little baby panda?

She doesn't give a damn about Genma, and I'm sure that she doesn't want
a baby panda - and if she did, she'd probably rather have sex with a
panda from the zoo than with Genma!

If it didn't, then it would be the one to carry on the name who would
be the heir to the musabetsu kakuto Saotome ryuu. And unless Nodoka
has had some very shameful and dishonourable children, then there is
no-one else. (If Genma had some illegitamate chlidren, it would be

Who said they'd be illegitimate?  What if this is Genma's or Nodoka's second 
marriage - then there would be other children who don't have this problem.  

If it was, you would have seen the children. They do not exist because
otherwise, it would show Nodoka as the worst mother of all, even worse
than Genma - she forgets her own children! And Ranma probably wouldn't
want to have anything to do with a mother who'd rather leave her kids
out in the streets than let them move into the Tendou house when the
Saotome home is destroyed. Genma, too... and Souun... and Kasumi. If
they did exist, and Nodoka would obviously be so heartless, Kasumi would
probably be the one to invite them in to live with them.

Or maybe this could explain Genma's weird deals.  It seems like he was poor 
for a while and maybe had to either arrange Ranma's engagements or give him 
up for adoption to keep the baby fed.  Maybe he did an engagement deal 
because he regrets doing adoption instead, for G&N's previous baby?

Somehow, I don't think that your complex explanations fit, where as
the much simpler and more obvious explanations fit perfectly well. Your
brand of logic up there is rather hard to follow.

And if there WERE others, why did Genma own the clan household? There's
no way he could have afforded, or even made, that old house with the
way he steals things.

That was the clan household?  I haven't seen that part of the manga yet, so 
I didn't know whether or not the Saotome house was a normal one or something
else....

If you own a house that big in Tokyo, you've either got to be damned
rich, or it's an ancestoral house. And the place seems rather old,
seeing all the places to hide in the roof, etc. And since Genma is
rather poor, seeing he has to trick Ukyou's dad so he can get a yatai,
it's definately not the damned rich option.

Genma would never agree, because that's suicide for _his_ family line.
And since Genma has no honour, anyway, there's no reason for Ranma to
do what his father says. His mother is another story - and she would
definately not order Ranma to do such an _unmanly_ thing.

On the other hand, it's not her family line (unless Genma did mukoyoshi).

She's the one with the big sword, not Genma.

I have to wonder why bother with all that mess anyway? IF it could be
done, which I somehow doubt, why go to all the hassle? It's pretty stupid
to take someone's family name so you can inherit, and then throw your own
children out of the inheritance by giving them to some other family which
isn't your own any more!

There are lots of ways to deal with this mess - hyphenation, handing down 
two surnames instead of one (like in Spanish), never changing your last name 
in the first place (like in Iranian), handing down your first name instead 
of your last (like in Icelandic)....

Problem - this is Japan, not Spain, Iran or Iceland. You have to do it
the Japanese way, or else you are Different - and being Different in
Japan is a pretty Bad thing...

But it just wouldn't happen... Ranma would never take Akane's name,
because of his ego, etc, and he wants to be seen as a man as much as
possible - taking Akane's name would just show to the world that he's not
only a girl in body (some of the times), but he's a girl in his heart, and
that _Akane_ is the man in the family!

Good point - would Akane refuse to do this because it would make her look 
less feminine?  Or would her ego demand that she keep her name?

Akane wants to be seen as feminine - being called all those names by
Ranma makes her even more self consious. So she'd definately do the
feminine thing - she always _tries_ to be feminine. She tries to do
cooking and sewing and the tea ceremony, etc... But she is not very
good at it ... But what she _can_ do, she does. She wears dresses more
often than not, and she wanted her hair long to make herself look
prettier, etc. So she'd do the feminine thing there, too. Why make
herself more open to "kawaikunai" insults?

Can you imagine Ranma, the macho jerk of Ranma 1/2, doing something so
womanly? I know that I can't. O_o

I can imagine him doing much more feminine things.  Remember my fanfics?

Ah, Your Ranma, not Takahashi's Ranma. Try to argue this with Takahashi's
Ranma, please. It's totally usless having any discussion if it's on
Alternate Worlds Ranma 1/2.

That's why a younger son could go take a girl's name, since he may not get
a part in the business, even though his share should be equal. Though if
he DID go take a girl's name, it's a shameful thing (well, it's seen as
that by a lot of people), and so he'd be thrown out of the family anyway.

?  You get thrown out of your family if you leave it for another?  Doesn't 
that make it a moot point anyway?  I thought it's like getting deported for 
deciding to emigrate.  I'm confused now.

No, it's like being deported for going on a holiday. It means that you
can never speak to your relatives again, and you'll never speak to
your parents or siblings, and they won't have anything to do with you.
Normally you'd keep in contact, because the family is very importaint
in Japan.

But since Ranma isn't the younger brother, and since he doesn't have

Well, you could say he's the youngest....

You can't say that an only child is 'youngest' or 'oldest', but the
only child takes on the duties of the eldest child!

one... there's nothing to be said about it. Maybe Genma and Nodoka ARE
able to have children, IF they still want them ... but who's to say that
they'll have a son? Who's to say that they'll have a child? It's all ifs,
and why risk a family line because of a maybe?

I meant something more like, "A few years later A&R are still enagaged and 
still yelling at each other, then G&N rethink the details after they get 
drunk and accidentally have triplet boys" or whatever.

No point in arguing something like that, since there is no basis for it
at all. Genma and Souun want their children married _now_, if not sooner.
I doubt if they'll be waiting around in case Genma accidentally stires
a child with Nodoka. Even if he did, it would be highly likely that
Nodoka would get an abortion, rather than lose time with her son at such
an importaint stage in their lives. (It was quoted that 2 out of 3
Japanese women have had at least one abortion, so this isn't some
uncommon thing, or something that has anti-abortion groups jumping up
and down screaming about... it's pretty normal, it seems, in Japan for
a woman to have an abortion instead of an unwanted pregnancy.)

Somehow, I doubt that there are... it's all very silly to say that there
are! If there were then Ranma would have been with them on the trip - or

Of course it's silly!  But that's okay!

Only if you want to have a non-serious discussion on the topic, sure.

I guess you're taking the "Takahashi didn't say it did happen, so it can't 
fit" approach and I'm taking the "Takahashi didn't say it didn't happen, so 
it can fit" approach.  No problem!

Well, then, that just means that there is no point in arguing, because
you could pull anything from anywhere, and say "But what if?" And so
it's impossible to argue "what ifs", because they are Alternate World
Ranma 1/2s, not Takahashi's Ranma 1/2. I can only argue based on
Takahashi's Ranma 1/2, not whatever you decide to throw in. Since there
are infinate things to throw in, whatever I say will always be countered
with a "what if"... most of which do not have any basis in Ranma 1/2
what so ever.

How can I win against an infinate number of probabilities?

But I just can't see what Ranma would get out of taking Akane's family
name. He'll get the dojo anyway, as there's no Saotome-ke left for him
to take Akane to ... and he'll lose his position as leader of the
musabetsu kakuto Saotome ryuu ... Akane will still be the heir to
the musabetsu kakuto Tendou ryuu, not Ranma... and Ranma loses out on

Weren't the kids supposed to inherit both?  I thought that was the point.

Yes. That IS the point. And if Ranma takes Akane's name, he can't take
the Saotome Ryuu. He's no longer a man - and very likely not welcome
in the family after he runs away from his mother as she tries to make
him comitt seppuku. But a woman in Japan can inherit, I believe. So
Akane can quite happily pass on her school, probably to a daughter, I
would guess.

his own mother, as well ... he'll have to be in the position of looking
after Souun instead. Plus it's unmanly. What are the things that Ranma
_would_ get out of taking the name Tendou, other than what he's going to
get anyway?

It's shorter.  His children would spend less time penciling in bubbles on 
all those standardized forms.

Err, 'Saotome' is actually shorter than 'Tendou', in Japanese. The
characters 'Sa' 'oto' 'me' add up to 12 strokes, and 'Ten' 'dou' add
up to 16 strokes. 'Dou' being the character with the most strokes.

So, the above point, even though it's silly, isn't exactly the truth.
;p

Remember - it's Japan where they live, not America! They won't be
writing their names in romaji!

Kun-chan...
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