Once upon a time Jeanne Hedge shaped the electrons to say...
Gee Zoner, do you always shoot the messenger? If I was writing something,
Only when they deserve it. William has had a long, ongoing email exchange
with us. And, after my post, basically admitted he is personally fixated
on hating NXE, DJ, and trying to piss off Ben, and the rest of us. He was
the catalyst in my post, because he actually wrote that 'anti-fic'. But
he is one of a few people who have been building the frustration and,
frankly, puzzlement with the venom displayed.
and points I thought were glaringly obvious were getting missed by almost
everyone else, I'd think that maybe there was something wrong with the way
Did I say that? No. I said some people, Frankly the overwhelming bulk of
comments have been glowingly positive. But when people miss it, they REALLY
miss it. Even that isn't a big ddeal - but there are a few people, abotu 5 or
so, who have been sending negative comments with almost every episode. These
folks REPEATEDLY get things wrong, and even after one of us explains it all
carefully they come back again with the same incorrect assumptions. Ben
finally got fed up enough trying to be nice he said to take a flying leap.
It seems to be a rather unhealthy obsession for some people. They so dearly
want to find things to bitch about that they are fantasizing things that aren't
there, even after being told point blank what they got wrong and what they
missed.
too close to it and what I thought was there wasn't). Definitely NOT that
the readers were idiots (as you seem to think from comments here and
elsewhere in this message).
At first we were kind of "Hmm, maybe this is too obtuse." But then we passed
it by other people and thye all got it. And other readers were writing in
and they all got it. So we tried explaining it. And a few people went "Oh,
doh, I need to read more carfully." But we're past ep 3 of the 3rd season,
21 episodes in, and there is this core of people who are still bashing on
things. Bashing it and of itself isn't annoying. But when it is apparently
based on complete misconceptions and personal prejudices, ever after we've
spent quite a bit of time trying to explaing in email, it gets very old.
And now one person tells me he is doing it because he's troubled and just
decided to make us his venting target, deliberately trying to piss us off for
no better reason than to piss us off. So it seems he has been deliberately
mis-reading because it suits his purposes.
Do you guys have *anyone* not related to Eyrie or close to this fic
commenting before release? The old thing about "stupid-proofing" by having
Yep. We have a private web site a number of people we trust can access.
works very well. If this person gets it, so will almost everyone else. And
then anyone who doesn't get it later probably does have a problem.
That is my point.
fics -- very few people believe UF is non-SI, though some affiliated with
Eyrie swear that it isn't). Eyrie's rep on the street is to have fics
It isn't now. UF 1 definitely was. But the characters are hundreds of years
old at this point, and live lives completely unlike the authors. They do
different thigns, know different things, have different personal tendencies,
etc. If characters were alive for that long and they were just the authors,
say 7 years older at this point (UF 1 was released in late 1991) then we'd
have completely failed as creators IMHO. As far as I'm concerned it stopped
being SI a long time ago. Zoner in UF sure as hell isn't me. We diverged
personas back aroudn 1992
starring author-and-friends avatars who are all-knowing and ultra-cool.
The prototype Self-Insertion Fic.
Well, UF basically was. It was the 4rd anime fanfic posted to USEnet, and
the first to be SI. (Trivia: The first were Ryan Matthews Dirty Pair: Big
Bang and DP: The Ballad of Lord Robin, and Larry Mann's DP: Experiment 101-E."
AFAIK none of us had ever read SI fanfic before writing UF, the only fanfic I'd
*ever* read were those first 3 stories. So when we did it, it wasn't the
groaner it is now. The other stories - HL, WL, and GW - were ideas that
were around for a while. HL was a direct spin off from UF. GW was created
back in 1994, and looks like it might be revived again. And WL was an old
concept we finally got around to using. It is deliberately over the top,
being set in the White Wolf SF gaming universe. Where heroes are Heroes and
villians are Villians. Very Saturday Matineee Serial, Indiana Jones-esqe.
And now we come to NXE, from Eyrie, starring an all-knowing, ultra-cool new
character. You guys say there's no SI in NXE, but how many of your readers
know you guys personally enough to tell if it is or isn't SI? What did you
Um - is DJ anything like Ben or Zoner from any of the actual SI stories?
Let's see, none of us speak a second language, adventure in tombs, are English,
are rich, have famous parents, etc. Closest we come are that Ben and I both
own firearms, and we're decent shots. And we both have had an interest in
the Titanic for years before it became trendy. DJ got that because we
wanted to give him some quirk, and Ben and I both have read ridiculous
quantities of Titanic literature, so we had the 'research' in our heads.
Besides, there was a reason for making DJ so insufferable.
else that comes out of Eyrie? Surely you knew your own rep?!
There are many aspects to that rep that are laughable really. People seem
to remember things that didn't happen. When a thread came up on the women
Ben and Zoner have slept with in UF people were listing women that nothing
even close to imtimate happened with. Some of them completely baffled us.
"What?! Where the hell did that get THAT from?" A few were with women
that characters in the story explicitly state nothing happened with!
People develop some pretty weird ideas.
See my comments above about this. If people aren't 'getting it', look at
yourselves rather than branding people as "clueless".
When I character says, in plain English, "X", and we get a letter from
someone ranting about how they said "Y", you really have to wonder. We're
not arrogant enough (because I AM arrogant, and I know it) to just assume
it was obvious. So we'll ask other readers who send us comments about it,
we have the other authors in Eyrie (which is like, what at least 6 people)
who aren't workign on NXE. Of course, all of the NXE authors read it.
That's 4 people. When the general concensus is "That's clear to me" then
ok, human error. But when the same people do it again and again and again.
Wven after having things explained, even after giving them spoilers for
what we're planning, it is either deliberate or someone has a bad grasp.
William's basically come out and said it was deliberate. Well, that pisses
me off more than the clueless option. That someone would deliberately set
about trying to upset other authors is unconsionable to me. Isn't there
enough shit to deal with in life already than to deliberately create more
for someone who did nothing more than write a story you don't like?
story. It's not right, but it is easy. He's perfect, he's unflappable,
he's got every woman in the story panting over him (except Ritsuko, and I'm
sure she'll come around eventually), he's got every man in the story
Have you been reading the story? He's not perfect or unflappable. He
does have gobs of aplomb, I tend to think of him as being a piritual Kin to
Indiana Jones in that regard. He is an unabashed flirt. I'd be tempted to
say he gets it from me (because I am too), but Ben created him long before
I was involved. I think DL owes more to Indiana Jones, and Saturday
Matinee Serials, than any of the authors. He is also charming to the
extreme, like Indy, so people like him. But, you know, I've known a number
of people like that. One person who was just so likable even the "Nice Shoes"
line worked for him as a pick-up.
last chapter released, you guys even had Misato saying she'd considered and
discarded the notion of going to bed with him. For heaven's sake, he's 14
and she's 30? Give me a break! Or rather, give Misato a break. She'd really
15 actually if I recall. *shrug* I was 20 with a 34 year old lover, lasted
a year. Note that it would be legal in several states, let alone a number
of foreign countries. Misato would have slept with him if DJ had wanted to.
Well, he *wanted* to, that much should be obvious. But he has too much honor
to do that to Asuka. THAT he gets from the authors, I've been in his shoes
a few times. One of the points we've tried to make is that, with the
situation, their ages have become meaningless. They've been through,
literally, war. Expecting them to act like 'normal' 15 year olds, or to
be treated as such, would be the abberation.
need her head examined to consider such a thing (then again, this *is* an
Evangelion-derived fic, and everyone in Evangelion needs their head examined).
Yes, this is not normal life. This is not a teacher and a student in some
everday world. These are, basically, soldiers in a war.
I can thoroughly dislike one aspect of a story, yet continue to read
because of others. I've done so many times, both pro publications and
fanfics. I continue to read NXE because, despite DJ Croft, I'm interested
in the story. He's a major irritant that makes it difficult, but I get by.
That's fine. You apparently like it despite DJ. I mean the people who
write or post that they despise the entire thing, wish we'd never soiled
the sacred realm of EVA with NXE, and they need to go watch the series again
to purge themselves of the sin of having read NXE. You think I'm joking...
And then, they do it again?! Huh? If it was that abhorent, why are you
coming back for more? Macabre fascination? The same impulse that makes
people slow down and gawk at accident scens?
Maybe I'm hoping the sky will fall in on DJ, but I'm doing the same thing
you said you do. Are you a masochist?
No, you've said you are interested in the story, and I take it, get some
enjoyment from it. I was talking specifically about the people who go to
pains to express how utterly abhorent it is - again and again, after reading
each episode. Such behavior baffles me.
"Looks like he hates it."
"YES! That's it! I *HATE* THIS! It is repulsive!"
"More?"
"Yes, please."
"C&C" you sent to the FFML? It comes off as more of a whiney rant by
someone whose ego has gotten bruised. Frankly, I would have expected better.
Hopefully someone might think twice about just why they are berating another
author. I have *never* deliberately set about pissing off another fanfic
author, even when I despised their work. Maybe someone will think again
before spending time on writing an 'anti-fic', and spend the time improving
their own writing instead. It upsets me to see that kind of intercine warfare
in a community that was once very openly helpful, and avoiding such things
as vigorously as possible. It upsets me to see someone so obsessed with
hate for a character or story, or author, that they'd take the time to
write that kind of story. I just don't see it as being productive for the
community, or any of the authors concerned.
But what's really pissed me off this time is finding out one of the main
people doing this was doing so deliberately, taking out personal troubles
in his life on other people - 'just because' apparently. He's needled Ben
so much he was talking about getting out of fanfic altogether just to avoid
that kind of shit. I normally just let things slide in my life, I don't have
time to be petty. But boy, if someone is going to target my best friend and
co-author, and berate him just to do it, they won't know what hit them. I
can be the most vicious bastard on the planet in such cases, my best win
was driving one guy out of college on a rail. I'm very hard to provoke, but
once provoked I always win in the end. Right now I'm not quite provoked.
I have no qualms about ruining someone's life if they fuck with my friends,
I'm very loyal to and protective of the people I care about. That anyone
would *deliberately* use something like our stories to go after us emotionally
is completely beyond the pale in my eyes.
-MZ