Subject: Re: [FFML] [fanfic][OMG\Ranma][Edutainment] Language Lessons, Book I - Japanese 100: Survival Course, Prolog and Chapter 1
From: "The Eternal Lost Lurker" <lurkerdrome@worldnet.att.net>
Date: 6/11/1999, 12:45 PM
To: "David A. Tatum" <desaix@sysnet.net>, <ffml@fanfic.com>



First off, comments on the fic itself.

Kono fanfikku wa omoshiroi desu!

I must say I am very impressed. This is a fanfic with a true purpose, and
it's going to be not only an entertaining read, but an informative one. I,
for one, am quite eagerly looking forward to the continuation of this
unique 'edutainment' series.

And, because I feel that I have something to contribute to this effort, and
especially given the enormity of what David is trying to accomplish here, I
feel obliged to help out with a few things, such as proper romanization,
and comments on this and that point along the way.

Before I begin, let me remind, as I always do when commenting on something
related to proper Japanese usage, that my own skills in Japanese are both
very formative (ie, I'm not even anywhere close to fluent) and tend to rust
when long periods of time pass in which I don't find time to practice or
continue lessons. I have, however, been at this for quite a while, and
believe I do know a few things that should be of use.

However, in the likely event that I err, I would appreciate if someone more
knowledgeable would correct me.




"Konichiwa!" she exclaimed, smiling brightly.  "Hajimemashite?"

Konnichi wa. (Hiragana: ko  n  ni  chi  ha)

(A note on kana: For reasons as yet unknown to me, though I am still trying
to find out exactly why, the particle which is pronounced 'wa' is expressed
with the kana 'ha'. This sounds confusing, but it really isn't...once
you've had a bit of practice with reading hiragana, it's not long before
you figure out where the 'wa' particle is being expressed.)

(C&C note/note to David: I'm not sure you should attempt to use
'hajimemashite' as a question. That's more of a greeting, IIRC.)


Her smile fell a little, but stayed on her face.  "Ogenki desu ka?"  My
blank look remained on my face.  "Wakari masu ka?"  I continued staring,
wondering just what the hell this pretty young woman was saying.  "Nihongo
ga wakari masu ka?"

Be very careful not to split what's supposed to be one word into two words.
Anything that ends in 'masu' or 'masen' is usually a verb, and should be
romanized as a single word. 'masu' is not a copula, as in the case of
'desu'.

So in this case, correct romanization would be 'wakarimasu'.

I sighed.  As my girlfriend back in Maryland, who was quite the world
traveler (as opposed to me, who had lived in one state for his whole
life),
once said, you should always learn a few particular phrases before going
to
any country.  Of course, the two rather specific phrases she said you
should learn, "I don't speak your language" and "Where is the bathroom?"
weren't necessarily what the goddess was going to teach me, but I figured
she'd probably give me something useful.

"Sure- might as well."

And now the fun begins...

[snip pronunciation lesson for 'sumimasen']

Belldandy thought for a moment.  "You should know how to ask someone if
they can speak English, of course.  First, let's teach you the word for
the
English language...  Eigo.  [Ay goe]"

Pronunciation disagreement here. 'ei' has more of an 'ey' or 'eigh' sound,
as in 'hey' or 'weigh', than an 'ay' sound, as in 'say' or 'pay'.

Also, something very important to remember, although at this point, I don't
know if David's going to be touching on this at a later time...

Japanese vowel sounds are (in theory, anyway) precise and clipped. When
speaking Japanese, you should take care to speak each syllable with the
same duration, not counting the nasal 'n' or vowel sounds which are
unvoiced (I'm sure that will come up MUCH later...)

A double vowel sound should be given exactly twice the duration of a single
vowel sound, with only a few exceptions.

"Good.  Okay, despite the fact that English is a required subject in high
school, a lot of Japanese people cannot speak it or understand it at all,
so the answer you're most likely to get it no.  The word for no, in
Japanese, is 'iie [ee ay].'  Try saying it."

"Iie," I said.

Warning, folks. This one can give you trouble until you get used to
Japanese pronunciation. You actually do need to pronounce all three vowels
in this one. (Well, the first two can be pronounced as a long vowel, but it
doesn't quite sound right unless you pronounce them individually.)

(Of course, once you've become comfortable with the language, you're not
likely to be *using* this word at any rate, so it's a moot point. For
various reasons, and especially if you're in a position where you can use
informal speech, you're likely to replace 'iie' with 'iya'.)

"Just so you know, the word for yes is 'hai [high (as in tall)]'"

"Hai," I replied.

(And as is frequently noted, 'hai' is NOT a general-purpose 'yes'. It's
both formal, and has numerous other uses, which usually involve responding
to a sensei, or to a superior. When familiarity sets in, unless you have a
peculiarity for mixing formal and informal speech--and this DOES happen to
people; I know from personal experience--your best bet is to remind
yourself to say 'ee' instead of 'hai'.)

"Right.  Now, for 'I don't understand,' instead of 'masu' you say 'masen.'
So try it- wakari masen [wah kah ree mahss en (rhymes with hen)]"

"Wakari masen."

And again, romanization of this should be 'wakarimasen', same as with the
other form.

"There was a little bit of an accent there, but not so much you wouldn't
be
understood.  'Jin' [jean] is used to turn the name of a country into a
nationality."

"So a Japanese man would be 'japanjin'?"

[busts out laughing] I'm sorry, but that was goddamned hilarious.

Belldandy smiled slightly.  "Not quite- it would be 'Nihonjin [nee hone
jean].'  Nihon is Japanese for Japan."

"Now, if someone is going to ask you if you are an American, they'll
literally be saying 'You American is?'  Let's start with 'you.'  Anata wa

Thus proving why we do not do direct literal translations from one language
to another. We'd sound more fucked up than Shampoo.

[ah nah tah wah]."

"Anata wa."

"Right.  And the word for 'is' is desu [deh ss]"

"Desu."

I have to interject another comment here. This is mainly for the people who
are actually learning this stuff for the first time, although we could all
use a reminder of this.

'desu', as well as its other forms (it has an informal form, a formal
negative form, and an informal negative form, and probably forms I haven't
even encountered yet), is one of the most important words in the Japanese
language. 'desu' and related words are make up a part of speech known as a
'copula'. A copula, like a particle, has no actual meaning on its own.
Where particles define the part of speech and place in the sentence
structure of the words around them, copulas serve, to my knowledge, two
purposes:

1. They complete or conclude a sentence.

2. They function in the place of the verb 'is' (or 'are' or 'am'). For this
reason, 'desu' is often assumed or considered to BE the verb 'is'. However,
'desu', according to several sources, is not an actual verb.

I'm not trying to confuse anyone here. I'm just pointing out that 'desu' is
something which takes a bit of getting used to, because it belongs to an
unusual part of speech.

"Excellent!  You're doing extremely well," she said.  "One more word
today,
and then we'll review and try a little conversation in Japanese.  The word
is 'a little.'  Sukoshi.  [S'koe she (occasionally, the e is dropped,
making it sound like just "s'koe sh")]  Try it."

This is very important, folks. Remember this.

More often than not, when you see a single 'u' vowel sound in a word, the
pronunciation of the sound is 'unvoiced'...that is, it's there, but you
don't really pronounce it.

In many cases, the same applies to the vowel sound in 'shi', as well as the
vowel sound in 'chi'. It's barely, if at all, pronounced.

[sunippu]

And that's it for this one. I'll be back again with comments on the next
lesson. Saraba da...

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