I made a couple of big mistakes in this that need to be cleared up.
Sometimes I write this stuff and it makes sence when I read it, but needs
clarification after someone else does.
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:49:06 +0000 Ryoga P Hibiki <carrotglace@juno.com>
writes:
Due to the sheer amount of usage of Honorifics on the list,
especially
by new writers who don't really understand them, I felt this was
relavant
enough to post to the list.
It started out as a reply, but ended up a bit longer than I
intended.
So here's a crash course in Honorifics. It's far from all
encompassing,
but much more than most casual fanfic writers are aware of. If you
really
want to get down and dirty in it, go buy a Japanese-English
dictionary,
they cost about ten bucks, twenty for a good one.
Please do not spam the list by sending hundreds of replies
to the list
on this. If you really want to comment on something. [Like you think
I am
incorrect about something.] Please reply privately, I will research
any
objections and correct them myself. Nothing annoys me like reading
ten
replies that all have the same correction on them on the list.
As for why I think that I am not doing the exact same thing?
This is
thorough enough that I don't think anyone else will do the same
thing and
post it.
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:45:30 -0400 Richard Robinson
<richardrobinsonjr@yahoo.com> writes:
Thanks I have over a dozen replies all saying I had the answer
and didn't know it.
Mrs. Saotome would be Saotome-Kun. honorifics are not gender
specific.
Ahem, yes that is true. -kun is an informal honorific
though, and
typically used by males.
That should be 'when reffering to males.' Speaking too or about a
particular boy. Also, someone using Saotome-kun to reffer to Nodoka would
have to be a social equal or superior. I.E. a friend of hers of about the
same age.
Girls tend to use -chan amoung friends;
boys
also tend to use -chan when reffering to girls in their own age
group.
Especially if they are dating said girl. However it is not unheard
of,
especially in tomboys, to use -kun.
When reffering to another girl, this is used in some manga to imply that
a character is a tomboy.
.
-chan is also used to reffer to a younger child, usually a
very young
child. [Till around age 8-9] -kun is usually used mostly for boys
when
they get a little bit older; most girls still use chan at this age.
[Lets
say 10 to about 14] Finally, -san is used when the child matures
into a
teen. Parents will often use -kun or -chan as a term of endearment
when
the child grows older. [It's fun to embarass your kids that way,
trust
me.]
Even young children will use -san when speaking to their
peers at times.
[Especially in school.]
Another big thing to remember is what my Japanese teacher
reffered to as
'Respect Factor.' -kun is only used with social equals that you are
very
familiar with. It would never be used with strangers, [Unless the
person
is rude] or superiors. That means that a teen would not use -kun
when
addressing a parent. -san or -samma would be appropriate in these
situations. Genma and Soun use -kun when speaking to one another all
the
time, but Akane uses -san when refering to Genma. [Specifically she
calls
him "Saotome oji-san, or Uncle Saotome." Her and Ranma's refusal to
use
Oto-san when reffering to the men is part of her denying the
engagement.]
Also, it is not unusual for people to use family titles when
speaking to
people. For example, a girl speaking to someone who is about the
same age
as an older sister might use onee-san or onee-chan depending on how
familiar/playful she is with the person. Ojisan, for an older man.
Oba-san, Oba-sama for an older woman. Oka-san, Oka-sama for a woman
about
the speakers mother's age... you get the basic idea.
There are quite a few other honorifics as well that aren't
used as much
as -san or -kun. Oyabun, or boss, senpai, or upperclassman, are
good
examples of this.
These honorifics are used quite frequently in Japanese speech, I only
meant to imply that they are usually used in specific situations. And
yes, Sensei is another good addition to this list, it's used when
reffering to Doctors or teachers mostly.
On another note, Japanese also tend to use a persons title
instead of a
name. A good example of this in practice is Maison Ikkoku, Yusaku
almost
always uses Kanrinnin-san, [Mrs. Manager] when speaking to or about
Kyoko
in public or directly too her.
Another important quirk is the family name. It is considered
very
impolite to use someone's first name if you are unfamiliar with
them.
Family names are -always- used in the workplace, dojo, or places of
business. First names are usually reserved for informal situations.
Like
speaking with friends, or being at home with the family. You'll
notice
that Mrs. Hinako almost always uses the last names of her students.
It is not unheard of for co-workers to reffer to each other with first
names. It is considered 'unprofessional' though.
If there are several members of the same family present? In
this case
the full name is usually used. I.E. : "Tendo Akane".
You should always use the last name of a superior or elder.
Even Ranma
is polite enough to reffer to 'Kuno Tatewaki' as 'Kuno'.
Soun and Genma's usage of last names is a sign of respect
for each other
that probably dates back to their days of training under Happosai.
And there are also insulting pronouns. Osaforu, Teme, Yaro,
Kawaii kune.
These are basically japanese cuss words. [Used like 'bitch' or
'bastard'
or 'uncute tomboy']
Not all of these are pronouns, but they are insults. Teemee, Kissama,
and Omae were popular additions to this list as well. Use them sparingly
in fics though, it doesn't look as good in fanfiction to have an insult
as every other word spoken by a character as it does in a manga.
Not to mention informal versions of speech, like Ranma's
usage of
'Oyaji' a slang term for father. It's considered disrespectful and
rude,
mostly used by rough speaking boys.
That should help smooth out some of the rough usage of
Honorifics I see
on the list, and also help you understand that, yes, it is a very
complicated system. Far more than just, -san, -kun, and -sama. If
you
aren't really sure, just stick with English. If you really must,
just go
with -san or -samma and avoid the specifics; your fic will look
japanese
flavored enough to please most casuall readers.
Ja ne,
Carrotglace.
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