Bert Miller wrote:

I'll try to keep to points not yet made.
BTW, in case it isn't clear, I did enjoy the story.

Good. There were enough mistakes in it which made that difficult enough as
is.

I stumbled on this forgotten story recently. It was done
about two or three years ago back when I first finished
S 1/2. Touched it up a bit (a lot actually. Nice to know
I've come some ways since then) but that was when the
idea was formed, so it might be a bit rough.

While there are a few very nice passages in this fic,
your more recent work is, IMO, much better, so I think
you've definitely 'come some ways' since writing this.

Another good thing to know as well.

not pick on him.  He's the one that was shooting his mouth
off about having a new 'invincible' technique. I had
to see how good it was."

In later manga, Ryouga's immediate response to learning a
new technique (e.g., Shi Shi Hokodan) is to go challenge
Ranma with it, not necessarily seriously, but to see how
good it is.  And Akane does not interpret this events as
'Ranma picking on Ryouga' the same way she does various
earlier ones.  While that's a nice line to start the story
on, I think a simple challenge of Ranma by Ryouga works
(though not, perhaps, giving Ranma quite the characterization
slant you need for this story).

Well, Akane is a bit touchy on the subject since she's trying to curb him of
his fighting habit with challenges.

"You just don't get it." Akane held her tongue on how
embarrassing it was to have a fianc� who would do anything
to win as badly as Ranma did.

Akane was more right than she knew.

Authorial, omniscient comment; recommend taking it out.

That would probably be for the best.

"Then why do you want to fight me over beating Saffron?"

Seems a bit dense of Ranma.  The concept of challenges
motivated by similar reasons is not unknown to Ranma, e.g.
the Dojo Destroyer, or, for that matter, Soun's sign in
front of the dojo.

True, but since Takeshi brought up Saffron, Ranma is automatically assuming
it has something to do with him, rather than just being a generic challenge.

Not Herb, not Ryu Kumon, not even Saffron.

Several comments:
1) Good fight scene, I though; effective in showing how
overmatched Ranma was.

Okay.

2) While this is Ranma's POV, not objective reality,
it is arguable that Ranma's first 2-3 fights against Herb
had him just as overmatched as this.  And he did come
back to win.

True, but he wasn't as powerful then as he is now, and even Ranma knows
there has to be a limit as to how good he can get at some point. Though
given his nature, he'd probably assume that it would still be above
Takeshi's.

3) There is a certain strain (clearly, a necessary one,
though) in the reader's acceptance of this outcome,
based on the their 'knowledge' of what the Ranmaverse
is 'like'.  For this story, you need to persuade the
readers that this is different.  (Or do you?  See
discussion below.)  You largely succeed on one level,
but not, IMO, completely:  no attempt to use the
Nekoken to win?  no use of the Hiryu Shoten Ha or
Umisen-ken techniques?  To fully persuade your readers,
I think you need to somehow make it clear that none
of these will work either, perhaps by having Takeshi
use recognizable variants of all three.

Hmm. Maybe, but that would mean stretching out the fight scene, which has
already gone on longer that it should have. I'm reluctant to do that.

"Even better A technique would take time. I know how I can
enable you to defeat him today. No need to wait. No need
to allow your anger and rage to simmer and boil and make
life miserable until you avenge yourself."

Ranma doesn't really do that, once he's training on the
comeback technique.  Does he think that he does do that?

Hmm. Good question. Even if he doesn't, Sifler's at least planted the seeds
of the idea that he would by mentioning it.

"The heck there isn't. No one comes out of nowhere and offers
to help me beat some guy without wanting something from me
in return."

Good, in the context of your story; questionable, as a Ranmaverse
reality.  In the Hiryu Shoten Ha story, Cologne did exactly
that, at that point an unprecedented act for her.  She'd
always been an adversary before, and suddenly she flips and
becomes a reliable ally (with the minor exception of the Reversal
Jewel story).

Well, Cologne had been around for a while rather than coming out of nowhere,
but I understand your point.

"How do I know I should trust you?"

"You shouldn't. I'm not trustworthy."

Good. He _should_ say that.

He's walking a fine line between honesty and deception. Takeshi is the true
target here, but by nature Sifler is shifty.

Unfortunately for you, he's also a few years older
than you and already better in martial arts. Think of what
you would be like eight years form now. The edge he
possesses over you cannot be overcome.

This passage does more to convince the reader, IMO, of
what Ranma is REALLY up against than the fight itself did.

Hadn't thought of it that way, but you're probably right.

One can see Ranma accepting the hopelessness of fighting
an eight-year-older version of himself.  OTOH, for Ranma
to accept that that is what he's doing requires him to,
on some level, recognize himself in Takeshi's behavior.

Heh. Actually I think he's more blind to his nature than even most of the
cast.

While we, your readers, do, Ranma has shown no signs of
doing so.  Suggest Akane tell Ranma that Ranma doesn't
like Takeshi because the two are too much alike.

Not sure where I could fit it in though. Not much opportunity to make that
observation on her part.

"Interesting. I didn't think you had the strength of
character to accept being second best for the rest of
your life. I applaud your resolve."

Definitely the type of comment that might persuade
Ranma.

I kind of thought so, at least more likely than more protesting on Sifler's
part.

"Why, nothing at all. I gave him his new abilities free of
charge." And Sifler laughed, a cold, cruel thing that was
thousand times more disturbing than Kodachi's own laugh.
It was a sound that would haunt every person that
heard it to the end of their days.

I like the descriptions, here and below, of Sifler's laugh.

Thanks. Tried to work on imagery a bit, but still feel as though I had mixed
results.

Backing away, Takeshi said, "I think I can live with that."

I rather like this too, on one level.  Sifler is not being as
persuasive here (which has its own problems) as he is objectively
describing the choice Takeshi faces.

A mistake on Sifler's part. He never conceived Takeshi would refuse, knowing
what he does about him.

  Many people face

similar decisions in their lives, on much more mundane matters
that they've managed to make "mean" something important,
and the temptation to stick with their previous decisions
is described well here.

Thanks.

As told, this is a standardish "selling your soul to the devil"
story, well told, especially effective in the descriptions
of Sifler and a few other points.

However, there seems to me to be a basic problem in achieving
suspension of disbelief in trying to tell this sort of story
in the Ranmaverse, and I think this is reflected in some of
the public criticism this story has received.

Yeah. Probably.

I'm not completely sure I know what I mean myself here, but
let me meander a bit more.  It may be that you're simultaneously
violating too many Ranmaverse 'constants':  Ranma always wins
in the end; Ranma and Akane are inseparable; there's always
another magical gizmo around the corner to fix the current
problem.  (I know, I know:  'The Bitter End' violates all
these and more.)

Heh. Actually I tend to violate some of those as well. I don't like being
completely predictible and only writing things that have happened a million
times before. I know, pretty much everything has been done in Ranmafiction,
but I'd stilll rather go with lesser used themes than more common ones.
This, however, did not work out as planned, unfortunately.

I was reminded, somehow, of Alan Harnum's 'Eidolons', especially
the ending, where Ranma loses Akane by trying to deserve her
more.  But 'Eidolons' ends with a slight thread of hope which
your story doesn't have.

Nope. It's not supposed to. Ranma ended up embroiled in someone else's
'tale,' and got dealt a raw hand that he can't overcome. There isn't always
hope when you lose. I know it violates most of the Ranma traditions, heck,
violates most stories since you don't want to read about the hero losing,
but I wanted to do one like that for a change of pace. Wouldn't do it often,
might not ever do it again, but I wanted to give it a try.

One suggestion:  Takeshi's superiority by means of secret technique
rather than being overall better.

Nah. Then the idea that Ranma only needs to learn one move to get better is
all that's needed.

 Ranma 'rejects' Akane's comfort

more definitely at end of first fight (possibly, partly by accident).
Takeshi hits on Akane following first fight rather than Sayuri;
Akane doing typical Akane 'help Ranma by scouting enemy' thing,
even though hurt by Ranma's actions.

Nah. She's more concerned about Ranma than finding some weakness on his
opponent, also the story isn't really meant to be long enough to include
that.

Everyone else counsels Ranma to patch up with Akane; he ignores to
train hard.  Less obviously supernatural Slifer offers technique
for which he'll have to learn "Soul of Isolation".  Days of
training in distainfully ignoring Akane.  Ranma offered multiple
choices to abandon this path but perseveres.  Ending is Ranma
bodily intact but incapable of love, or even care, for Akane.

Hope all this helps somehow.

It does. I'll reconsider some things and see if I can make the story a
little easier to digest, at least. Thanks for the comments. I really
appreciate them.

D.B. Sommer (Who made the mistake of being a good guy and listening to his
conscience this weekend, and is now miserable for it. :(



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