painamplifier@tds.net wrote:

At 07:12 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:

       Recall that these techniques never surfaced again in the series, no
matter
how desperate things became for Ranma.

If I remember correctly, in the manga Ranma almost never re-uses ANY
attacks specifically.  Some things get folded into his basic abilities like
the Chestnut fist, but the rest seem to get forgotten and he moves on to
the next technique.  (I attribute this to the 'serialized' story technique
used for manga in Japan.)

        True, as far as it goes.  But the side-effects of these particular
techniques
were also quite nasty, which explains why they were sealed.

snip

       That doesn't have ooomph?  Ranma engages in close-quarters attacks
that take
her through the heart of the enemy while Mars and Venus attack from a
distance.  It may be martial arts, but it takes a fighter of rare talent to
attack in that manner.

Ah, but then why does Rei only refer to it as merely 'reckless'?  That
would seem to indicate that the senshi have a far better understanding of
Ranma's limits than they have had opportunity to learn at this point.

        Actually, it was Minako who referred to her as being reckless.  Here's
the
relevant passage again:

        "Ranma?" V replied with a crooked grin.  "Uh-huh.  I don't
know whether to ream her for being so reckless, or just stand in
awe."
     Mars could see what her friend meant.  The little red-head
performed a breathtaking dance routine with death as her partner,
skating along the razored border that separated the living from
those who were one instant too slow.  On that border, one
distraction or misstep meant eternity in a cold grave, but the girl
moved with absolute certainty and the grace of a goddess as she
unleashed a series of terrifyingly deadly yet beautiful attacks.

        Obviously, Ranma's attacks were not referred to as being "merely"
reckless. 
Mars was quite impressed, and Venus was torn between berating Ranma and a
state of awe.  However, beyond that, I don't see why referring to a reckless
attack as being reckless should indicate anything about Ranma's limits. 
Seeing a person acting in a reckless manner is simply that: I suppose it
wouldn't be reckless if Ranma was invincible, but failing that it is hardly a
telling statement, especially since they are aware that he possesses a ranged
attack and could engage the enemy from a distance if he chose.

This passage wasn't what I was referring to however...I'll make sure to
point out the problem passage in my revised C&C a little later. (cuz' I
seem to be dropping the ball the first time around. o_o; )

        It doesn't really matter if that was the passage or not, as far as
that goes;
you were arguing that Ranma's attacks were mundane and had no oomph, that they
were merely things that anyone could do.  These passages, as well as others in
the story, show that his abilities are far greater than those of an ordinary
person, and that the senshi recognize this.

       I don't understand.  Ranma's fighting ability has been seen as
something
special from his first meeting with Usagi and Rei.  His speed and grace, his
death-defying aerial attacks, have been noted at EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE where
he engages the enemy.  I don't understand why you feel he is being
shortchanged.

ACK! I REALLY seem to be dropping the ball here in my explanations.  More
on this later...

        I guess I just don't see the point you are trying to make here.  You
seem to
be saying that Ranma's abilities are not shown to be anything special, yet
they are constantly referred to as being everything from awe-inspiring to
breathtaking.

       They have discussed Ranma's chi earlier on, with regards to how it
powers the
key.  And Makoto made reference to witnessing master level martial artists;
chi talents are not unknown to these people, and certainly not likely to

cause

suspicion in folks who can use combat magic.

Ah-HAH something I can answer!

Here I am mainly referring to how after the explanation about chi, the
senshi seem to just accept that without hesitation or questions.  This
despite Ranma's casual use of something described as master level.

        Once again, so what?  Chi use is not unheard of in this world.  I
don't know
why you seem to regard it as something significant.  In practical terms, it
gives Ranma a projected energy attack.  All of the senshi possess projected
energy attacks, only theirs are grounded in magick rather than chi.  Remember
that all living things possess chi, although only a few fighters have trained
themselves to use it in this way.  This is not some spooky supernatural power
Ranma has; it's something the girls all possess.

 I'd
expect someone like Rei to instead try to analyze/pay attention to when
Ranma uses his talents, as part of her paranoia in relation to possible
threats to Usagi or just to determine how much power Ranma has for
attack/self-defense.  Too much power=possible threat, too little and he
becomes a hindrance since they would need to protect him as well as Usagi.
If a sword swallower showed up for your local party wouldn't you be
curious/impressed despite knowing that people can swallow swords?

        Not if I knew someone who could use a sword to destroy the entire
planet. 
The senshi are familiar with Hotaru's ability to use the Silence Glaive;
what's Ranma got in relation to that?  Now, none of the senshi trust Ranma
totally, but they've seen him fight and know he is not a liability on the
battlefield.  Ranma has helped the senshi on several occasions now and saved
Minako twice directly by risking himself.  

You have the story moving at a pretty good clip event-wise, so I don't
expect Ranma to stop and put on an exhibition for the senshi.  But the
occasional wistful wish for something along those lines  by the senshi
would be nice.

        Why would he put on an exhibition for them?  Why would they be
wistful?  They
possess more raw power than he does, especially as a unit.  I'm beginning to
see that part of the problem is that you are a big fan of the character of
Ranma Saotome.  There's certainly nothing wrong with that, but where he was
the main character of his owns series he isn't here, he's part of an ensemble
cast.  Nobody is pining for Ranma to show them his stuff.  They all have their
own problems, concerns, and lives.  In Nerima, he was a big fish in a
relatively little pond; little, that is, in relation to the city he now finds
himself in.  He is a talented martial artist with impressive fighting skills,
but so what?  They are the reincarnated soldiers of the White Moon Court,
princesses all, and seeing as they are descended from gods they could probably
lay claim to being at least demi-goddesses.  Ranma?  He's just some guy from
Japan.  Excellent fighter, yes, but these are the big leagues.  He kills
monsters real good, but beyond that only time will tell.

 Heck, just a thought or two by the senshi about finding out
what Ranma's limits are would probably suffice.  The morning scene with
Ami/Makoto peeking through the hedge is the first glimmer of this I've seen
so far.

        Again with the limits?  A person's limits aren't that clearly
defined.  How
far would they go in a sparring match?  In a fight?  In a life and death
fight?  To protect themselves?  A loved one?  These could all be different. 
They don't even understand their own limits; as the enemies get tougher, they
constantly find new strength to fight.  The limits of Ranma's power?  Try the
limits of Usagi's.  Or Hotaru's.  Ranma does not possess the blood of a god,
and so far in pitched battles he's shown speed, agility, martial arts prowess
and a decent chi-bolt.  If they were worried he posed a real threat, they
wouldn't be keeping him around.  And if he gets out of hand, Artemis can turn
into a cat and terrify him.

       I think there was plenty of literary flavour there.  Maybe you
disagree.

There are times I regret the fact that I've never cared much about
English/Writing in school and this is one of them.  I'm passing on this one
until I can find a suitable response that doesn't sound like I'm trying to
troll you.  (Seen that happen far to often, even without intent to do so...)

        Well, it's likely to be a largely subjective argument anyway.  If you
dislike
a particular style, then no amount of arguing is going to change your mind. 
It isn't a matter or right and wrong, just taste.

       Ranma is an outsider here, and doen not feel comfortable.  He
certainly isn't
going around doing handstands and breaking walls with his fists, but I do not
agree that he becomes a nobody when he isn't fighting.  A great deal of the
introspection, and all of the first person introspection, has been his.

He is

only one character in this story, but I certainly do not agree that he has
been in any way shortchanged.  I just don't see it.

       Well, thanks for your comments, and I hope this addresses some of

your

concerns about the story.

I feel honored that you actually took the time to respond to my
embarassingly worded post.  I'm going to try and re-do my C&C and hopefully
I won't step all over my tongue again.

        I wouldn't say you embarrassed yourself.  I just didn't find any
support for
your positions within the story itself.  Perhaps I'm just not getting the
point you are trying to make.

PS. Even if nothing I write is of use to you...know this.  I consider your
writing good enough that after 4+ years of just lurking in this list, I was
motivated enough to finally offer up something remotely resembling C&C.
(My thanks to you for that opportunity.)

        And thanks for writing.  Four years is a long time to lurk, after all.

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